Everyone Will Return for Time Jump in Season 4

[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from the season three finale of Shrinking, “And That’s Our Time.”]

If you are wondering if Shrinking just ended after that season three finale, don’t worry — the show isn’t over. It’s coming back for season four.

But the season three finale, titled “And That’s Our Time,” did feel like it could have been a series finale, and there’s a reason for that: It was initially going to be the end of the show. The hit Apple series co-created by Bill Lawrence with stars Jason Segel and Brett Goldstein was pitched with a three-season plan, and Lawrence tells The Hollywood Reporter now that when they decided to continue on while writing season three, they wanted to stay true to that original vision.

“We’ve told the story of whether or not Jason Segel’s Jimmy is going to make it through the death of his wife and come out the other side as someone who might be able to find joy and happiness in his life again,” says Lawrence of season three ending with Jimmy being ready to pursue a relationship with Sofi (played by Cobie Smulders). “This is the finale of that three-season story. And I hope that people will dig it that when we come back — whether there’s a time jump or not — that it’ll feel like we’re telling a completely different story.”

The episode felt like it could have been the end-end because everyone left Jimmy — albeit, most of them temporarily. After getting engaged, Gaby and Derrick No. 2 (Damon Wayans Jr.) decided to celebrate their impending nuptials by joining Liz (Christa Miller) and Derek (Ted McGinley) on their extended trip to Barcelona; Brian (Michael Urie) and husband Charlie (Devin Kawaoka) are heading to Tennessee; and Sean (Luke Tennie) is moving out of Jimmy’s pool house. Jimmy’s daughter Alice (Lukita Maxwell American) is also gone — she’s off to college in Connecticut — and so is Jimmy’s surrogate father Paul, played by Harrison Ford, who moved away with wife Julie (Wendie Malick), also to Connecticut.

But don’t worry — Lawrence says everyone, including Ford, will be back for season four, and a likely season five. And there will be a time jump when the gang gets back together.

“It’s not an accident that Alice goes to school at Wesleyan University and that in the end of the finale, she’s going by to have dinner at Paul’s house,” he teases. “Time passage changes a lot of things — as to where people are, where they’re living and how things have progressed. So, yes, Harrison’s back on the show.”

Below, prolific TV creator Lawrence answers more burning finale questions — including what Jimmy’s second chance will look like when the show jumps ahead to season four — as he talks more about what the next era of Shrinking will be like when it returns.

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This season finale felt like it could have been a series finale.

I can explain that. This is the ending of the three-season story we pitched. This is a narrative that I’m trying to get out there. Here’s what I love about doing streaming television. When I used to do Spin City and Scrubs and Cougar Town stuff, they would be like, “We want you to do this for 900 episodes, and nobody should ever change.” Someone asked Zach Braff in the seventh year of Scrubs, “How much has J.D. changed since the first year?” And he’s like, “I think I have a beard now?” (Laughs.)

But now when you go to streaming, you pitch a beginning, middle and end. At least, I do. I went, “The first year of Shrinking is about grief and the second year is about forgiveness, and the third year is about moving forward through it.”

We’re lucky enough that we all like each other. The actors love the gig; Harrison’s been cool and like, “I don’t care if this is my last gig ever,” and Apple loves doing the show. But we decided as a staff that we are not going to veer from our three-season story. And that’s because we’re fans of the show. Everybody likes their own shit, but we’re nerdy fans of the show and the actors and actresses — and if we turned on the fourth season and Jimmy was just sitting around saying to Paul, “You know, I’ve been thinking about it, and I’m still super sad about my wife,” I’d be like, “I don’t fucking want to watch this anymore. I already saw this!” So our burden and our decision was: This is the end of that story. This is the finale of that three-season story. And I hope that people will dig it that when we come back, whether there’s a time jump or not, that they’ll feel like we’re telling a completely different story.

One of the cool things is that Apple told us in time, so as writers — it was really challenging but — we were able to go, “What are some Easter eggs we can put in so there are things we’re addressing when we pick it up again two years later?” We always do that on this show. Our fans are so savvy — they’re always ahead of what we think are super hidden tricks! An example was in the second year. We love going online and messing with people who are trolls, and being nice with people who are fans, and we saw a lot of people saying, “How come Gaby hasn’t ever had it out with Louis?”

We already had that planned in the third year — that the way to get this guy [Louis] extricated from this was to have the one person who is never going to forgive him go, “Get the fuck out of here!” So I think we ended the story, but also left a lot of Easter eggs for people to know characters who are coming back, things that’ll be different work-wise and dynamics that will be a little different.

I remember when you spoke with THR at the beginning of Shrinking about your three-season plan, so this all makes a lot of sense to hear now. At what point did you guys make that decision to continue on, was it while you were making season three?

Yes. We were in the middle of writing season three. We knew Apple was into us continuing on, so we talked to the cast: “Guys, are you interested in doing this still?” And then, “Are we all interested in doing it still?” Then we had to talk a little and asked ourselves, “Is there a new story to tell?”

The thing we’re so lucky about is that top to bottom — not only the main cast, but even secondary characters like Rachel Stubington, who plays Summer; and Damon Wayans Jr. or Wendie Malick — we find them all so interesting. There are still a bunch of stories to tell.

What we’ve told is the story of whether or not Jason Segel’s Jimmy is going to make it through the death of his wife and come out the other side as someone who might be able to find joy and happiness in his life again.

Is the entire ensemble returning?

The entire ensemble is returning.

Including Harrison Ford? Even with Paul in Connecticut, we are going to see what he is up to?

When I say we found out in the middle of the year, it’s not an accident that Alice goes to school at Wesleyan University and that in the end of the finale, she’s going by to have dinner at Paul’s house. And time passage changes a lot of things — as to where people are, where they’re living and how things have progressed. So, yes, Harrison’s back on the show.

Are you planning this as now another three-season story, through season six? Or are you taking it season by season?

We have great partners in Apple, and I’ll admit that the shows I love —  like Hacks, is doing their fifth season. I can’t tell you what the right amount of years is for a show. I know that we aren’t going into this season as if it’s our last, because we’re telling another story that needs a little space to tell it. So I’ll probably do this year and then ask our partners, “Do you want to end it year five, or you want to end it at year six?” That’s kind of our vibe.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot with streaming because everything’s evolving. I’m a massive fan of The Pitt and if The Pitt, in the finale, said, “Surprise! In three weeks a show is coming called The Night Shift,” I would be like, “Fuck, yeah. Shawn Hatosy all day!” Who’s to say what storytelling looks like now? I would watch a show about where Michael Urie’s Brian goes in his life and what he’s doing, even if it wasn’t with this cast of characters. I just really dig working with these performers. All the secondary characters are leads of their own show, and that’s one of the reasons why the show works.

Brett Goldstein (co-creator) took an onscreen step back this season, so you have also set up this Shrinking world where characters can come in and out. Was that Louis decision precipitated by the story?

The Louis thing of it all is two things. I always say, “A lot of people might not like this story; as long as it feels authentic, that’s a great reason to do it.” Brett’s character on the show was loosely based on a true story, because we do our research. Whether you could do it or not and forgive him, we started from a quote of a father who forgave the teen driver who killed his teen child. He said, “I couldn’t stand to watch two young lives be lost.” But we knew that was a story where a tremendous amount of people would go, “There’s no fucking way I would never be friends with a person who did that.” So in our heads, we go, “That makes sense. We’re not going to do it in perpetuity, and we’re going to make sure that we hold onto one character who is like, ‘What the fuck? Get the fuck out of here.’” And that was Gaby.

So as far as Brett goes, we always knew Louis would be limited. And the secondary thing was that Brett has his own show that he’s working on — Escorted at Amazon; Brett’s writing and starring in his own series, so we knew he wasn’t a long-term character. And everybody’s aware that he was shooting Ted Lasso, which is another show that is doing what we’re talking about in a very cool way, and I say that even as a fan of Jason Sudeikis and Jack Burditt.

Everybody who has seen the pictures and knows that Ted Lasso is coaching a girls team [in season four] is like, “Oh, this isn’t season four of Ted Lasso. This is season one of whatever new Ted Lasso is now.” And that’s definitely something we were looking at for Shrinking.

You have a lot of other shows you’re working on, Ted Lasso included. So how does continuing Shrinking fit in for you?

One of my greatest skills sets, I think, is getting to occasionally take credit for other people’s amazing work. The truth is that I’m super engaged and love it, and I’m lucky enough that I can work with so many people. I like to gauge that I can run one-and-a-half shows myself or with a partner per year. The shows that I ran and worked on were three in the last two years: Shrinking, Bad Monkey and Rooster.

With Ted Lasso, I’m such a massive fan of Jack and Jason. There’s massive continuity. A lot of people from our company still work on it; a lot of the original writers are so great and still on it. So I’m not spread too thin. When you do this long enough — like, the production designer of Rooster was the production designer of Spin City; we’ve been working together for 31 years, which is insane. So if you have that kind of support network of editors and DPs where you all have each other’s back, you can do multiple things just because we all have a shorthand.

The way you ended Shrinking season three opens up so many possibilities of what you could do, but also who you could focus on. Do you still view Jimmy as the core focus?

My one hint would be that I don’t think you can ever get away from where the show started, which is with Jason Segel and Harrison Ford, who both have very distinct things we know we have to service. I want to do right by Parkinson’s and by Harrison’s journey, and by staying in an inspiring place — for what that means because of how personal it is not only to Harrison and to [Michael J.] Fox, but to me, because of my family and to Brett because of his family. So that will, without a doubt, go on. And Jason is the anchor and the weed of the show. I won’t divulge what the new story is, but I’ve already given you a hint. If we started with Jason hearing a song and getting teary and reminiscing about his wife, you would go, “I thought in the last three seasons this already happened? I thought he got through this?” I think people will enjoy watching.

So now Jimmy will be in a new romantic era of his life.

People will watch what his journey is like, and what that means to rebuild a life and be who he is. I was just with the writers, because we were figuring out the arcs for the next two seasons this morning with me and Neil Goldman and Brett Goldstein, and I could tell you, but I’m not allowed!

With Michael J. Fox playing a Parkinson’s patient this season, it was moving to hear him talk about being able to actually be himself while acting. Are you hoping to bring him back?

Well, he made the mistake of saying he enjoyed it. He’ll definitely be back. All my shows are about mentorship in some way. Mike was one of my first mentors professionally in Hollywood. He was so great to me when I was a kid. I should not have been running that show [Spin City]. I was way too young, and he was respectful and awesome. So to have him back in my world, and as such an inspiring, optimistic, hopeful guy for how he’s navigating this? Not only is it what I need and cherish personally, because I love to know him so much, but I find that it’s so authentic that it makes a lot of the stories we’re telling and that part of the show really work.

How far ahead do you think you’ll jump when you return with season four? Will we see Gaby’s wedding, or will we pick up with her already having like three kids?

I don’t want to spoil too much, but we’ve always done a couple month jump from season to season, at most, because we have these continual stories. One of the funny things for us was to say that it’s like Groundhog Day. If anybody took the time to look at how long the show was, the show always takes place over like three weeks or a month. So this [jump to season four] will definitely be significant and beyond a year or two.

Christa Miller (Lawrence’s wife who plays Liz) had such a great season as well.

She killed it, by the way. I’m so proud of her. I thought the stuff when she admitted how vulnerable she was was so good. People think she’s playing a version of herself, and she gets so mad because our last kid just left — we’re an empty nest and I’m the wuss. I’m the one who is losing his mind and sad and spending way too much time with them and following my daughter around Europe. My wife was like, “Deuces! I’ll see you around!” And she’s like, “You switched it on the show!”

Shrinking is now streaming all three seasons on Apple TV.